“If we stop producing regulations, we must strengthen Social Dialogue”
We had the pleasure of conversing with Maxime Legrand, the president of CEC European Managers. We discussed social dialogue, Artificial Intelligence, and the future of leadership in Europe.
How do you like to introduce yourself?
I’ve been serving as President of CEC European Managers since 2021 and as the National Secretary of the CFE-CGC (Confédération française de l’encadrement – Confédération générale des cadres) since 2023, focusing on labour, organisational, and occupational health issues.
Since 2019, I’ve also presided over the European Sectoral Federation FECEC, representing banking professionals at the European level.
Who is Maxime Legrand, personally?
I’m a dedicated individual. I often immerse myself deeply in my work, sometimes to the point of neglecting leisure moments.
I feel a bit anxious when I’m not learning, building, or imparting knowledge.
I’m generous with my time, eager to gain experience, and committed to putting in the effort required.
I’m sensitive to my loved ones and attuned to the world around me. From a young age, I’ve felt responsible for the events unfolding around me, and I believe I am part of the solution.
I prefer leading to following, setting visions, and establishing roadmaps.
I equip myself with the means to achieve my goals and find the most satisfaction in shared success.
I consider myself humble, recognizing that our time on Earth is limited.
Many illustrious individuals have come before us, contributing to remarkable achievements in architecture, research, medical advancements, and inventions that simplify our daily lives.
I believe that through our actions, words, and values, we must build, generate positivity, and prepare for the future during our lifetime.
I’m grateful for what life has offered me thus far, including the challenges that have ultimately shaped my character.
Maxime Legrand and Former EU Commission VP Margrethe Vestager in Copenhagen, June 2024
What led you to become involved in management representation?
Unfortunately, at the beginning of my professional path, I encountered a particularly toxic manager when dealing with younger employees and women.
I contemplated resigning, but finally, I chose to fight instead. That’s how I was elected in 2004, over two decades ago. For several years, I balanced both managerial and staff representative roles.
I sought to demonstrate that respecting colleagues while achieving excellent results and high productivity is possible.
I wanted to see if I could practice what I preached. I quickly realized that a manager’s presence is necessary for a comprehensive view of a situation or problem.
What happens if a manager is not involved?
Without a manager, problems are often attributed to individual personalities rather than organisational structures.
You previously said that you prefer to lead than to follow, and you talked about bad experiences with toxic management a couple of years ago. Are there many differences between European countries regarding leadership?
The ability to synthesize diverse viewpoints while driving efficiency is a key differentiator of the European managerial model.
Being a European leader entails being aware of our continent’s diversity. European leaders have distinct global perspectives affected by their national backgrounds.
For instance, Spanish colleagues may have more connections with South America, while our Nordic counterparts might align more with an Anglo-Saxon vision.
Common threats include recognizing Europe’s importance in maintaining peace, preserving democracy, and fostering economic development while upholding a social redistribution model.
Europe boasts some of the lowest Gini indices globally. There’s a shared understanding that only through a united Europe can we compete with leading continents.
A European leadership also requires balancing conflicting local interests, labour laws, and economic strategies.
Unlike the United States, where leadership styles are often more centralized and execution-driven, European managers must lead more collaboratively in multi-stakeholder environments.
How does education shape future leadership profiles?
It is natural for some people to lead, but it is not for everybody. If you don’t want to be a manager, you don’t have to be a manager.
You can always learn and be trained, but just because you are a good expert does not automatically make you a good manager.
I once had to lead three different teams of 15 people. By then, I had no full hierarchical authority and was not in charge of their salaries or promotions.
I had to lead by example, ensuring common goals and clear objectives.
And it was essential to spread motivation and energy while encouraging team members to contribute their own.
What about leading in the context of the complex European Social Dialogue negotiations?
Balance is key when approaching EU Social Dialogue and negotiations between social partners.
I always have to find a balance between different national perspectives while ensuring that the manager’s interests are fairly represented.
For example, during an important European negotiation on labour rights, I had to find a balance between different national perspectives while ensuring that managers’ interests were fairly represented. The experience reinforced my belief in the power of persuasion, trust, and structured collaboration.
Another significant moment was navigating the post-pandemic transition to hybrid work models across European organisations. Many companies lacked the necessary frameworks to adapt to remote work.
I pushed for new standards on hybrid work policies, mental health support, and digitalisation strategies to help managers transition effectively.
How do you see the current social and political situation in France?
Overall, we face challenges similar to those faced by other EU countries. We’ve relied on an aging socio-economic model, maintaining both company competitiveness and our social system by widening budget deficits.
Since 2017, the supply-side policy has subsidized companies without oversight or requirements for profit redistribution to employees or virtuous behavior.
The labour code has been deregulated, and there has been increased flexibility in recent years. Since 2017, companies have been able to deviate from sectoral agreements.
The supply-side policy implemented by Emmanuel Macron has been costly for the state budget, with unclear results and poor redistribution.
Notably, there’s a campaign to reduce managers’ rights compared to other employees. For example, in unemployment policy, French executives contribute 40% but receive only 14% of benefits, yet the government has further reduced our rights, portraying us as privileged.
Our social contract is increasingly under attack, adversely affecting mental health, as unions have lost resources and cannot support colleagues amid intensified work demands.
What can unions do about it?
Globally, unions have lost a lot of resources, while workers experienced a period of work intensification.
Is that a trend coming from American companies, especially those in the technological sector?
In a way, it is, and it can be portrayed as “Companies don’t need intermediary bodies.” According to this approach, politics need to speak directly to the population. In a way, it is direct democracy, but it can also be used for populism, especially after years of ultraliberalism push.
Companies defending this model say, “If you give me resources, if you reduce taxes, we will produce more jobs, we will redistribute our benefits, but I don’t want any control over that.”
Where is the limit?
It is not easy to answer this question; potentially, there is none.
Initiatives such as the Platform Workers Directive aim to regulate the use of AI to track worker performance and ensure human oversight of Algorithmic Management tools…
Artificial Intelligence presents many opportunities. However, we need to develop AI safely and transparently, taking ownership of the available data and acknowledging that we have no choice.
If we don’t use AI, if we don’t master AI, if don’t become champions in AI, we will lose competition.
We must be deeply committed to understanding and developing AI, and CEC European Managers will support leaders on that path.
It is time to implement and test it. We need more AI made in the EU and better regulation.
From left to right: Maxime Legrand (CEC European Managers President), Olga Molina (CEC European Managers Director), Mario Nava (DG EMPL Director), Silvia Pugi ( CEC European Managers Deputy Secretary General)
The AI Liability Directive was withdrawn a couple of days ago…
It was a good initiative because, from a content point of view, it included essential things that seem basic to be implemented by companies anyway.
Three points of the AI Liability Directive were essential to us.
The first one is that managers must be trained and must know the tool they are using because, as leaders, they have to be held accountable.
Also, a safe framework in the workplace defending the responsibilities of AI management and, finally, a clear definition of who has the power to decide.
Even if we don’t have it through European regulation, companies will still have to implement these procedures.
Tripartite Summit with Social Partners, led by Ursula von der Leyen, President of the EU Commission
Why did the European Commission step back from it?
The Commission is probably trying to seduce investors from outside the EU by suggesting that the European market is less regulated.
In the previous mandate, the famous mantra was “If we create a new law, we have to remove an old one,” but that was not the case.
It may be true that we have too many regulations and norms. But if we stop producing them, we must reinforce Social Dialogue or change how we make company decisions.
What’s certain is that we have lost important competitive points compared to the leading players. And it is not all about costs. It is about investment and efficiency in organisations.
I am an optimist, and I see that we could make “simplification” an opportunity for social partners because we must provide solutions to real problems.
If we don’t have regulations, we can work through social dialogue, and I hope employers will be willing to work with us, too.
At CEC European Managers, we also represent individual managers. We are 1 million managers and speak for 10 million European managers.
Every manager makes thousands of decisions every week. Better trained and supported managers will, through concrete action, have a significant impact on the economy and society.
You are foreseeing interesting times for social dialogue… but what is the current situation with employers?
We will develop a new Pact for Social Dialogue in a few weeks.
The European Commission did a lot on social policies during its last mandate. We expect that this mandate, the Commission will be a bit more willing to answer employers’ requests.
We have lost a lot of competitiveness compared to the United States during the last 20 years.
This is a fact. But it is not an excuse to give up and abandon what we have been producing during the last mandate on social aspects.
However, in France and other countries, we have seen how employers were not pushed to work quickly through social dialogue and that the government granted many petitions.
They had no incentive to develop things through social dialogue.
We cannot make the same mistake in Europe. If the Commission is fair, it will allow European social partners to work.
CEC European Managers is the first social partner to sign the Déclaration Universelle des Droits de l’Humanité (DDHU) – In the pic: Maxime Legrand with Corinne Dominique Marguerite Lepage
Are inclusion policies at risk?
We see how Meta, Amazon, and prominent American companies have abandoned their DEI (diversity, equality, and inclusion) policies.
The same is happening around climate change and sustainability. We may be facing a period when these topics are less prioritized, but they are here to stay in the long run.
We will need all the diversity; we will need every people to compete with other continents.
And when you see the tragedies we saw in Valencia or L.A., there’s no discussion about the importance of climate change.
We have to change our mindsets, think differently, and become different managers in a tense context without losing our long-term objectives.
Are these the main differences between your second mandate and the first mandate at CEC European managers?
Experience—both mine and my team’s—will be a significant differentiator.
We’ll capitalize on the work done during my tenure as Secretary General and my first term as President. Initially, I focused on social dialogue; now, we’ll accelerate efforts on management and leadership issues, influence, and undertake a new European project.
This mandate aims to secure our organisation’s future through new member recruitment, resource sustainability, and talent development.
It also aligns with a new Commission mandate, emphasizing Europe’s competitiveness. While supporting this shared need among European executives, we’ll ensure it doesn’t sacrifice social gains or environmental objectives.
If politicians are less committed to social Europe during this term, pragmatic agreements between social partners may become more crucial, especially regarding AI.
Employers must agree to share some prerogatives, allowing us to address upcoming challenges collaboratively.
Another example is DEI politics and environmental issues. There may be temporary headwinds that preach against, but the long-term trends are there. We need all our talents, individualities, and differences to meet the challenges facing us, whether they are questions of competitiveness or protecting our democratic fundamentals!
Do we want fewer regulations in Europe and the world? If so, the law and the standards are no longer desirable vectors of change, and all we have left are our actions!
What are your main goals?
We have to work on the enlargement of CEC and recruit new members.
For instance, we are working in the United Kingdom and Poland, and we hope to obtain new flags in countries where we currently have no members.
We also need to work through European projects. We have had a perfect one on Artificial Intelligence. I hope we will succeed, get funding from the European Commission, and work with the European Parliament and other decision-makers.
This year, we have had great success in communication. We developed a communication plan for managers to use their leadership role and participate in the European elections.
Our campaign “Use Your Leadership” was awarded by the European Parliament. We will continue working.
I also think this mandate will probably be a good occasion to renew the Gil-Robles resolution, which has served as a guideline in defining and recognizing managers’ specificity.
How will CEC European Managers’ priorities align with the EU institutions?
We are very interested in contributing to the Union of Skills. There is a global need for leadership, and the only way to change that is by improving the skills around leadership.
How can we reenchant younger generations when 70% of Gen Z dismiss managerial jobs as “high stress, low reward» (according to the latest survey by the Robert Walters HR Recruitment Agency)?
We must work hard on promoting satisfaction by leading, managing and addressing skills development and training accordingly.
The shift from hierarchical work structures to project-based approaches has given rise to new opportunities.
Many professionals now prefer project management roles, where they can lead teams temporarily without taking on long-term managerial responsibilities such as hiring, salary management, and performance evaluations.
While this model offers flexibility, it also deprives future leaders of essential skills like team development and strategic decision-making.
Recent studies confirm this trend. According to a 2023 Deloitte report, only 36% of Gen Z workers aspire to leadership positions, compared to 52% of Millennials.
Young professionals are increasingly cautious about assuming leadership roles due to perceived risks such as work-life balance issues, job insecurity, and mental health concerns.
If this trend continues, Europe may face a leadership gap, making it critical to rethink how we attract, support, and train future managers.
Organisations must modernize leadership development by integrating mentorship programs, leadership coaching, and flexible career paths to address this challenge.
Additionally, companies should better recognize the value of management roles, both financially and in terms of career progression, to make them more attractive.
European managers are operating in an era of unprecedented change. Three significant trends stand out:
Digital Transformation & AI. Managers must lead their teams through digital upskilling while ensuring ethical AI governance. This is particularly relevant as studies show that globally, over 50% of employees feel unprepared for AI integration in their roles.
Talent Retention & Leadership Pipeline: Companies and institutions must rethink how they attract, train, and retain future leaders, offering more explicit career development paths and better work-life balance initiatives.
Sustainability & Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR): European companies must increasingly align with green and social governance (ESG) principles. This means managers must now integrate sustainability into decision-making while balancing financial performance.
How should European managers adapt to these challenges?
I believe in three key solutions.
Investment in continuous education: European firms should implement a mandatory upskilling fund, ensuring all managers have access to leadership and technological training throughout their careers.
A flexible approach to leadership: The traditional top-down management structure must evolve.
Managers should become facilitators rather than controllers, embracing hybrid work models, cross-functional teams, and co-decision-making.
Stronger EU-wide policies to support managerial roles: The European Commission should introduce leadership development incentives, rewarding companies that invest in managerial well-being and professional growth.
I envision a future where management is less about control and more about enabling success.
European managers will need to think globally while acting locally. Europe must remain competitive by fostering innovation while protecting its social model.
The best leaders will be those who can build trust, foster inclusion, and drive purpose-driven leadership.
Future managers will succeed not by sticking to rigid frameworks but by embracing change, leveraging technology, and cultivating resilient teams.
As President of CEC European Managers, my priority is to ensure that Europe doesn’t just adapt to these shifts, but that it leads the way in defining the next era of ethical, inclusive, and high-performing leadership.
Would time reduction or Telemanagement help restrain younger people from becoming managers?
Remote work has completely reshaped managerial responsibilities. At the CFE-CGC, where I oversee labour issues, work organisation, and occupational health, we conducted a large-scale study with nearly 5,000 participants, complemented by in-depth interviews with 40 managers.
The findings revealed that remote work has forced managers to redefine leadership methods, often with little or no formal training. Many struggled to adapt, and a significant number reported higher stress levels and burnout risks.
To address this, policymakers must establish clear guidelines on training managers for hybrid leadership, preventing digital exhaustion by setting boundaries for work-life balance, and ensuring that telework policies promote inclusion rather than creating a divide between office-based and remote employees.
Simply put, remote leadership requires a new skill set, and we need structured support to make this transition smooth for both managers and employees.
The four-day workweek is gaining traction in many European countries. How can managers make these reforms viable for businesses while maintaining competitiveness?
The four-day workweek does not automatically mean reduced productivity. In fact, multiple pilot studies—such as the UK’s 2023 trial involving 61 companies—show that 92% of firms continued the four-day week after the trial.
Productivity remained stable or even improved. Employee well-being, engagement, and retention increased significantly. However, one-size-fits-all solutions don’t work. The key to success is customization.
Some sectors, like manufacturing, may require shift-based rather than compressed workweeks.
Smart workload distribution—Ensuring employees don’t simply cram five work days into four. Clear performance metrics—Companies must measure outcomes rather than hours worked.
Ultimately, competitiveness is not about time spent at work, but about the efficiency and quality of that time. If structured correctly, flexible work models can enhance productivity, attract talent, and boost employee satisfaction.
Why should other manager organizations join CEC European Managers?
Because united, we are stronger. Many people in the UK seem to regret having left the European Union, and managers in countries that are not represented in Brussels are not being heard enough.
When we attended COP29, we were able to organise an event for the youth in Azerbaijan, and we are willing to do the same with Brazil in COP30.
Hosted by our Danish organisation Lederne, we talked with the youth, and not about the youth.
We need to be closer to younger generations and prepare for the future.
We, the managers, bring solutions and facilitate transitions, and it is also easier if we are united.
What role should managers play in promoting workplace well-being, particularly mental health?
Managers are not psychologists, but they are the first line of defense regarding workplace well-being. They are critical in detecting early burnout, stress, and disengagement signs.
To create a mentally healthy work environment, managers should foster open communication so employees feel comfortable discussing challenges, encourage reasonable workloads, prevent chronic overwork, and implement flexible policies that support work-life balance.
Finally, managers must lead by example. Employees will feel pressured to do the same if we constantly overwork ourselves.
We also encourage dedicated HR and wellness programs, and a corporate culture in which seeking help is normalized, not stigmatized.
Healthy teams perform better, innovate more, and stay longer within their organisations.
How do CEC European Managers navigate the differences in workplace cultures, sectors, and policies among its members?
With experience and a strong European mindset. The beauty of Europe is its diversity, and we see it as an asset, not an obstacle. Different cultures have different ways of working.
The French are known for their intellectual debates. Germans excel at structured processes. Nordic countries value consensus-based decision-making. Southern Europe often prioritizes relationship-building.
Understanding these dynamics helps us adapt communication styles, align expectations, and build consensus more effectively.
We see Europe as a learning lab—each country brings unique strengths, and by sharing best practices, we elevate management across borders.
How is it working with the CEC executive board?
I have a wonderful team. It’s the second mandate of Torkild Justesen, our secretary general.
He comes from Denmark and brings excellent experience in management and leadership.
Our Deputy Secretary General is Silvia Pugi. This is her first mandate, and she has extensive international experience. She has worked in innovation, leadership, and finance. She is developing a working group on innovation and competitiveness.
Finally, Our Treasurer, Ebba Öhlund, from Sweden, brings all the specificities coming from Nordic leadership.
And our Brussels staff is also developing great work, led by our new Director Olga Molina.
We represent only 1M managers compared to other social partners, which represent more employees. We work through working groups and bring expertise from our members.
What’s the most rewarding part of your role as President of CEC European Managers?
Feeling useful and impactful, I will give you three examples:
- When I advocate for women in leadership at the European Commission.
- When we engage youth in decision-making at COP meetings.
- When the European Parliament recognizes our work in strengthening democracy.
Finally, and thank you for your time; how do you cope with the intensity of your job while still staying active?
You have to work on different plans: the short, mid, and long term. You have to develop personal projects. The best thing is balancing personal and professional projects.
This way, you multiply the chances of having a source of satisfaction and finding comfort when you face adversity. And never forget sport and your health—your best asset.
After a bad day, it’s amazing when you come home and see your son’s smile.
